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tv   Politics Nation With Al Sharpton  MSNBC  August 31, 2019 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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they do have it remaining a category 4. doesn't mean it couldn't become a 5 somewhere in the middle. they have it over the top here of the islands near freeport. this is sunday afternoon. this is monday afternoon. so we have about 36 hours that the northern alabama islands, it's going to be raked by this category 4 storm. i mean, the structures there are built for big storms. this is going to test all of them. and then the storms should weaken a little bit. as we do some good news out of this forecast, but it's pretty much status quo. looks like the most likely path is still off shore. >> bill, thank you so much with the latest advisory and the summary there. nbc meteorologist bill karins. i'm richard lui. you can find me on twitter, instagram, and facebook. for now i turn it over to
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reverend sharptal sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lead, storm watch. no, i'm not referring to hurricane dorian, although officials and residents along our southeastern coastline are making preparations for what is now a category 4 storm with maximum sustained winds of 150 miles per hour. dorian shifted course this morning, now tracking towards the carolinas, but still promising dangerous weather conditions for residents in georgia and florida where president trump has declared a state-wide emergency. we'll bring you the latest on hurricane dorian later in the show. right now, we focus on the dark political clouds over the white house and, of course, president trump, who despite
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always complaining about the money he's losing in the white house, now says he's toying with inviting foreign leaders to his private florida club for next year's g-7 conference, raising eyebrows from congressional democrats who worry he's just lining his pockets in office, and rightfully so, because we learned this week that trump's attorney general, william barr, booked his annual $30,000 holiday party at the president's d.c. hotel. this as the "washington post" reported this week that the president is so desperate to point at his finished wall, his finished border wall in time for the 2020 election that he's offered pardons to officials that break laws to speed up construction. in a move more shocking, even by trump administration standards,
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immigrant children and adults receiving medical care in the united states are being told they have to leave the country as the administration ends a program that gives these patients legal protection. instead, they and their families, who have just 33 days to leave or be deported, that's regardless of the likelihood of death without in some cases, live-saving treatments. that's where i want to start today, because while the corruption and cynicism of the first two stories are expected at this point, the deporting of foreign medical patients was condemned this week as uniquely cruel and hypocrite cal, coming a president trump who was talking about criminals and gangs, not people in pain.
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joining me, shermichael singleton, republican, and marcia kay tron, democrat. this is beyond the pale to me as the saying goes. when you look at the fact that we're talking about people that in some cases are getting life-saving treatment, other cases, very sick. and we're talking about ending the protection they have against deportation as they deal with their medical needs, i mean, how insensitive can you get? >> right. and this is just deferred action, researched. all this means is we're going to put you to the side while you go to your medical care and we'll go over and focus on the criminals or murderers and rapists. the trump administration is taking that away. it's unclear why or what threat these sick children pose to the united states. there's less than 1,000 cases per year by u.s. cis that offer
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this deferred action. again, it's not offering them any sort of legal protection. it's a temporary deferment so that they can get their medical care. seems to me that the obvious choice would be to go after the bad people, not the convicts, not the children. >> shermichael, we have heard the rhetoric from the trump administration and the president himself that we're going after the people coming across the border, we're going to have the immigrants because of crime and violence and calling mexican rapists and all. why this deviation to even suggest that you're going after people that are here for medical reasons? i mean, what would be the incentive for anyone to do this? >> reverend sharpton, i don't know to answer that question directly. a lot of people are expecting solutions on this issue. as we saw in the past, at least a year ago, democrats and republicans in the senate attempted to come together to
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provide solution-oriented policies far comprehensive immigration reform bill. but what the administration continues to do is compound on this issue. so instead of actually trying to address it, they're merely sweeping it under the rug by not targeting the criminals, to your point, that the president spoke so much about during his campaign, that he continues to talk about, but now they're going against children, innocent people. and i think if you're going to address immigration, rev, you need to do it in a way that empathetic and has compassion to those who need it most, and that's not what we're seeing from the administration. >> he can do this without the consent of congress, marcia, so the fact that this is something he can do by executive order and really there has not even been an outcry from a lot of republican leaders about this. >> yes. seems they just went out and did this. rollouts matter here. when i was in the obama administration, we had careful rollouts with congress.
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and this went off -- i don't even know he talked to the agencies in charge to make sure that they knew what was happening and what their roles were. there seems to be finger pointing between citizenship and immigration services and i.c.e. no one knew who was in charge of getting rid of these poor, sick children, and there's no transparency to this process. it seemed to come out of nowhere. again, it's a small amount of cases. these are kids who need help and we should be helping them. >> well, as much as i want to stay on this, let me raise the other points of concern tonight. it's clearly more morally outrageous as this as far as i'm concerned. but when we look at the g-7 that's coming to the united states for its next meeting, we are used to, shermichael, maybe camp david, somewhere like that, to bring all these world leaders together. explain, if you can, the mentality of a president that
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would suggest, oh, know, we're not going to camp david. why don't you come down to my hotel, which means all of the monies for security and their entourages and their staffs and all, would be paying trump for their lodging. >> rev, i mean, i think the president has not blurred the lines to be quite frank with you, the lines just don't matter to him. i don't think there is a degree of separation, at least in the president's mind from him being president and his personal business, even if that means he and his family will see some type of financial benefit. the problem is you don't see a lot of republicans really speaking up about this. rev, we talk about this a lot, but just imagine if president obama, for example, did something similar, if he invited folks to one of his private residences as of he had the type of wealth as president trump.
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republicans would be in uproar. there's a level of hypocrisy that is consistent not only with this administration but also with many within my party. and i think the issue here is that you sort of opened pandora's box where standards that we used to maintain and expect for our presidents to adhere to no longer matter anymore. >> opening the box that would be filled with all kinds of resources coming in in terms of dollars coming into the trump enterprise. marcia, on top of that we're seeing the attorney general -- i know both of you deal in washington a lot. is washington really so busy and booked that the only hotel they could have the holiday party and spend $30,000 at the department of justice is the trump hotel? >> no. >> did i miss something? is there so many holiday parties that you couldn't book another hotel anywhere? >> actually, the washingtonian
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searched other hotels in the d.c. area and find like four or five that were even cheaperer than using trump hotel. so that logic doesn't hold up. it seems like there's wrongdoing here, and i don't even know if bill barr is going to listen to his own department when it comes to being ethical or moral about this. we could save the taxpayers money if they went down the street. >> we've run out of time on this segment, but the other point that is interesting to me, we've talked a lot about how the president just uses his power of pardon in various suspect ways. but for him to suggest now, go and build my wall, don't worry about a lot of the technical ownership problems or situations, i'll give you pardons if you have to break the law. i mean, to openly suggest that
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government workers break the law and he will pardon them, that's a new low in terms of presidential pardons being offered for other than legal reasons. >> right. rev, i think in many ways the president sees himself as a king. it reminds you of the theory that essentially insin waits the president can do whatever he wants regardless of the law because in his mind he is indeed above the law. as a conservative, it absolutely baffles me, rev, that here you have a republican president who has absolutely no respectability whatsoever for adhering to the customs that not only govern his position, but also governs the rest of us as a civilized society that are ruled by laws. this is a guy who likes to articulate himself as a law and order guy, unless it doesn't matter for him. law and order for the rest of us, rev, but not for him. >> you say the way of kings, but i guess, shermichael, if you
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hung out with putin and kim jong-un, you would probably have the same complex. we'll have more with shermichael and marcia later in the show. up next, sitting presidents who face primary challenges within their own party usually don't fare well in general elections. but my next guest is one of those looking to replace trump as the republican nominee. bill weld joins "politicsnation" next. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. but my next guest is one of . 3 out of 4 people achieved... ...90% clearer skin at 4 months... ...after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections... ...and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection...
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. president trump has been picking fights with democratic presidential candidates for months. now he has to fend off challengers from his own party. former massachusetts governor bill weld was the first republican to announce a bid to unseat the president back in april. he referred to himself as a, quote, real republican, and has called the president a raging racist, his words, not mine. joining me now to make his case for the presidency, former massachusetts governor and republican candidate for president bill weld. thank you for being with us, governor. >> thank you, reverend. it's a pleasure to be with you. >> let me ask you. i noticed that when this hurricane dorian began picking up steam and causing concern, it was coming through and toward puerto rico.
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and the president started talking about the corruption in puerto rico and attacking the puerto rican citizens. and then as it started heading north toward florida, he changed his rhetoric and changed the way he referred to the citizens. how do you think he's handled the hurricane as president thus far? >> it's just ridiculous. he's got an acting head of fema there. he knows that people who have "acting" front of their title in washington have very little clout. he didn't do so good with maria in 2017 and blames puerto rico and the puerto ricans. he was getting all upset. he was revving himself to do the same thing again with "w" dorian and then it changed correction. >> i guess he didn't like that they didn't feel throwing paper towels at them was something that they should, in his opinion, be grateful for. >> you know, reverend.
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if he has had any context in which he can heap scoring on hispanics or muslims or those brown people coming across the border from south of the united states and taking our jobs and maybe harming our wives and children, he'll take advantage of that. the reason i'm running is i think the president has a duty to care for all americans, and donald trump thinks it's his duty to divide americans, to fill them with resentment. i think in a democracy, it's hugely important that individual rights predominate and the individual never be thrust in a corner. donald trump's first reaction to many situations is let's by all means thrust the individuals involved here in a corner with government power. >> how do you respond to his saying we're not even going to allow people that are here with sickness and medical concerns, some life threatening, you got to go if you don't leave, we're going to deport you, i think 33
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days. how do you respond to that? >> no, it's just the president's typical inhumane approach to immigration in general. he wants to demonize anyone who's from another country. we need more work visas, not fewer. i spent a lot of time in the western half of the country in the last cycle. you could not staff the agricultur agriculture industry without people people coming from the mexican border. you ask businesspeople, they'll tell you that. the president's use of the immigration issue and his fixation on his great, big, huge, ugly wall is just gutter politics. it's very cynical. >> you have taken a different outlet. you said you're the real republican. how do you view your policies on immigration and criminal justice, which i've read are different from the incumbent president? >> well, immigration i'd have the opposite party of his.
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we're a melting pot. we've always ban melting pot. i'm proud of it. the president's come perilously close to saying he wants anarian nation. i think things are the opposite of what he does. our fortune 500 companies, 40% of them were founded by immigrants or their children. as to criminal justice, it's just a travesty what has happened in terms of the number of people in the federal prison system for lengthy periods of time for possession of, i don't know, a few ounces of marijuana or cocaine ten years ago. and the racism i've come to know is staggering. you're four times as likely to get arrested if you're black than if you're white for possession of cannabis. if you get a sentence, it's likely to be four times as long. that's a 64/1 ratio. that's pretty damn racist. senator cory booker of new jersey has an excellent
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proposed piece of legislation that would get 17,000 people out of the prison system that pose no risk to society. that would start to right the imbalance. >> talking as you have just spoken, saying what you're saying, you're running in the primaries against this president and that's what you hope to do. don't you fear you'll lose the republican base or do you feel that there's a base of republicans that does not support what the president is doing? i mean, what's your path to victory in an unlikely challenge to incumbent president of your same party? >> my path to victory is winning the new hampshire primary for openers. i'm up here now four or five days a week. i'm on the ground. i was at the classic car rally in manchester today shaking hundreds of hands. i encountered four to six voters out of 200 hands i shook, probably took 75 or 100 selfies. that's not how the president
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campaigns. he parachutes in and out. i'm not sure that's going to work in new hampshire. but in further answer to your question, reverend, my path is not to try to woo the state party leaders of the republican party in each of the 50 states. that's the trump organization. they're never going to listen to me. they're completely dug in. i would get nowhere there. but my path is to have more women, more mulleillenials. i would fight to a bloody draw in the republican primary and then the independents would vote for me 6 to 1. i would win and sometimes win by quite a lot. i got 71% on my re-election, and that was a real rainbow coalition. so that's my path is a coalition. it's not saying i want to persuade all the republicans who are now in lock step with the president to change their mind. i'm not going to get anywhere with them.
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but if millennials vote more like 70%, the president wouldn't win a single primary. >> now, we heard a lot in the last presidential campaign pre-trump about reaching out to the republicans, reechblacks an latinos, trying to have a more inclusive party. how do you do that with the symbol of the party right now, donald trump, and what would be your strategy to turn that around? >> well, you just do it. i mean, i spent enormous amounts of time with groups, councils of african-americans, caribbean-americans, hispanics, asian-americans, even muslims. when i was in office just to make sure they knew they had a seat at the table because i want to unleash everybody's energy. my cabinet consisted of eight women and three men because the women will often outwork the men and that's how it came out. i never asked anybody whether they were democrat or republican.
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my cabinet always had minority representation in there, responsible, important, powerful positions. that's how you do it. i reached across the aisle, i proposed we meet every week for tea and cookies every monday. well, i was so successful, they're still doing it. there had not been a republican governor in 20 years until i was elected. and then there was four in a row. people like that. >> governor, thank you for being with us. we'll be watching. >> thank you, reverend. coming up, as of tomorrow morning, you'll be able to go to church in texas carrying a gun. i'll explain. next. every day, visionaries are creating the future.
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. tomorrow morning the state of texas will loosen its gun laws. you heard that right. weeks after the el paso shooting, a year after a shooter killed ten people at santa fe high school near houston, and less than two years after 26 people died in a mass shooting at a baptist church , the new
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laws are here in the lone star state, including places of worship, schools, foster homes and government property. one new rule even protects a person if they can show they accidentally carried a legal firearm into a place where it's prohibited. the city's mayor is still consoling a grieving community and at the same time is taking the lead in pushing for more reform. joining me is the mayor of dayton, nan whaley. what has been your follow-up experience as you've shown real leadership in demanding that
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something be done directly as a result of what happened in your city? >> we're seeing the state starting to take action. i don't think it will go far enough, but we're grateful that in ohio at least titanic is turning towards common sense gun legislation and we're working towards that. and then 260 mayors from across the country and bipartisan nature, including el paso mayor dee margo have signed it. mayors will be coming to washington, d.c., on september 9th and 10th to talk to the white house about this vote. >> can you believe as the mayor of a city that had this despicable act that we are even debating whether or not we can get simple background checks? we're talking about voter i.d.s to vote and we are debate on
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background checks? it's unbelievable to me. >> it is frustrating and it's upsetting and it's really a comment to how much power the gun lobbyists have on or system. when you have something as easy as background checks where 90% of americans, 87% of gun owners think we should have universal background checks, and we can't get it through congress, just tells you how broken our system is. >> now, in your city, how are people dealing with the aftermath of the el paso shootings? because from what we've been able to see from the outside, and i know many ministers in your city, seems like there's been an unusual coming together to stand together against this kind of violence and this kind of behavior, even being able to find a root in somebody's person, in somebody's heart to
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do. >> reverend axillary you knl, y city well. it's a city that has gritty determination. i think when this act happened to our community, everyone did come together and has continued to come together and we still continue to have gun violence that doesn't make national news that we're fight. this week two 17-year-old boys were killed. but it's really this issue of guns that is constantly an issue in our community, and we need common sense gun legislation. we also had a great event last sunday where the community really exhaled where dave chappelle brought great national folks to come and celebrate with the community of us all coming together, and i think that's something the community really needed. we're certainly grateful to dave who lives about 20 miles from dayton to come celebrate with us. we're grieving together, but demanding action from our state and federal authorities. >> kudos to dave chappelle and all the artists and kudos to
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you, mayor nan whaley. thank you for coming on tonight. >> always good to hear from you, thanks, reverend al. >> i want to bring back my panel, shermichael singleton and democratic political consultant marcia catron. marcia, is it me or is it absolutely unfeasible that we're sitting here four weeks after shootings in el paso and dayton, and we can't even guarantee the public that we're going to get background checks? >> yeah. the logic seems sort of backwards. if you have gun violence, why would you add more guns to the problem? we have an opioid epidemic. we wouldn't add more opioids out there. they're forcing us into a binary choice, guns or no guns. it doesn't have to be that way. there's a big push for universal background checks to just sort
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of go after who actually has these guns and make things safer. our churches should be say high school football games should be safe. garlic festivals should be safe. we should feel safe in all these places. >> shermichael, i think the fact is that when you look at the shooting in ohio, this man was able to shoot and kill nine people in seconds because the police had an immediate response, was there in about a minute. so how is allowing people to carry guns in churches and in other places preventative when you don't know if a mass shooter is there and is going to get up and start shooting, you having a gun does not help the case at all. in fact, we ought to be doing the opposite in terms of, my opinion, bands automatic weapons and finding out who has the weapons. how does relaxing, going the opposite to make it easier for people to carry in places
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heretofore they couldn't? how does that solve the problem? in fact, it could intensify the problem? >> i am a gun owner and i shoot regularly. i have a lot of friends who are gun owners, a lot of my family are gun owners. and i think -- the argument from individuals who would advocate for this would be if you give individuals an opportunity to carry concealed in places that we don't already allow, the argument is that if something were to occur, then perhaps you would have the likelihood of someone who is carrying concealed to be able to immediately respond to that person. i know that's an argument that a lot of people don't agree with, but that's the argument from individuals who have advocated for that. as the mayor said, about 80% of gun owners would agree, myself included, that we should have comprehensive immigration reform. a lot of people would be for bands drums which gives the capacity to load 100 rounds that shoots out of those
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semiautomatic rifles that you were just talking about a minute ago. but i think ultimately in order to move this thing forward, rev, you really need to get gun owners involved in this more, not the gun advocacy groups like the nra and gun manufacturers, but gun owners who themselves say, look, there's a problem here that should be addressed. if you can get those individuals energized behind some type of collaborative bipartisan effort, then you'll see pressure transferred to members in the senate. >> all right. i'm out of time, but i agree with you. you need to get gun owners involved. i certainly don't agree that the fact that someone with a gun there, they might have an immediate response. don't forget the shooter in el paso was in a walmart where not only you had people that could carry, they sell guns at walmart and he was able to kill 22 people. but that's for another night. we're out of time. thank you, shermichael and marcia. coming up, the stage is set
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while some democratic candidates are taking time off the campaign trail this labor day weekend, steve bullock is pounding the pavement in iowa. the montana governor has embraced retail politics with three event on the books today
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in the hawk eye state. despite his best efforts, though, this week he failed to qualify for next month's debate. only ten candidates did. but he remains confident he can still break through in this crowded field. steve bullock joins me now from iowa. mr. governor, welcome to "politicsnation.." >> reverend al, i can think of no better place to be on a saturday night. thanks for having me. >> thank you. first of all, how are you being received in iowa. >> yeah, it's been great. i mean, this trip i'm doing, the state house to the white house tour, you have 30 counties almost in iowa that went obama, obama, trump. we have 22 states now there are completely controlled by republicans at their state houses. so to me we got to make sure the democrats can compete everywhere. if we're not only going to win this election but get these state houses back. >> now, you have criticized the
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dnc rules that have been put forward in terms of qualifying to be in the debates. explain. >> yeah. i think at the end of the day, right how we take a big field and win know it down, it isn't dnc debate rules. it ought to be about the voters and those expressing a preference. really what they've done, even though the rules have been well-intentioned, chasing 130,000 donors, people are spending 50 bucks online to get that $1. we ought to be talking to voters, not just trying to get individual $1 donors. i also think it makes it that much harder. look, i'm the only governor left in this. i'm one of the few that are outside of washington, d.c. so really, it incentivizes to not build out the grassroots
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support and talking to voters. >> you have said that you are also one that won in a state that donald trump was the winner in. does that in your opinion mean that you have a message that could, in a november race, if you were to be successful as the nominee, that you think you could appeal to independent and even some republican voters? >> well, i think i could because i've done it before. in 2016 i was the only democrat in the country to get reelected. he took montana by 20. i won by four. 20% of my voters voted for donald trump by showing up, listening, and getting stuff done. this is about math. if we don't win back places like michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, for all our good intent, we're not going to win this race and i'm the one that can win those areas but ultimately bridge divides to get stuff done.
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>> what is the bullock message? if you were to be president in a two or three-point message, what are you saying to voters, what you represent, what your mission is, and how does that differ from the president and from the other contenders in the democratic nomination process? >> yeah, i mean, this idea that you work hard, you play by the rules you're going to do better doesn't exist anymore. 60% of americans haven't had a pay increase in real terms in 40 years. when you look at half of 30-year-olds are doing better than their parents were at age 30. when i was growing up, it was 90%. two-thirds of our counties in this country have lost businesses. so folks don't think the economy is working for them. washington is captured by dark money and outside influence and money in our elections. all these issues from gun safety to climate to income inequality to prescription drug prices. the corrupt influence of money
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in our system has impacted that. that's been the fight of my career both as attorney general and as governor in montana. i think it's the challenge of our time. i've also had a legislature that's 60% republican. we've able to deal with health care, education, we've been able to kick dark money out of our elections. what folks really want is that fair shot, to believe the economy can work for them. i believe i can get that done for them. >> thank you very much for being with us, steve bullock. we have some breaking news out of texas where police have confirmed reports of an active shooter on the stretch of highway between the cities of edesa and midland. local law enforcement says there have been multiple people injured. they say there are two shooters in separate vehicles. here's richard lui. >> thank you, rev. breaking news coming out of
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texas. early reports on right now of an active shooter between odessa and midland texas. very little information. let's bring in clint vanzant, former fbi profiler. clint, what are you hearing coming out of odessa, midland, texas, area right now? clint vanzant, if you can hear me -- can you hear me, clint? sounds like we do not have at the moment clint vanzant. we are, again, getting early reports of multiple people shot in texas. >> are you looking for me? >> this out of -- jim cavanaugh now joining us right now on the phone. jim, you heard the early information we've got here at nbc news, what we were able to confirm at the moment is very little, only that there are multiple people shot in texas and at least one shooter believed to be involved in this.
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from your sources, are you hearing more than that? >> no, richard. that's all i've heard. i that's a long stretch of road. it's oil country, it's cattle country. if a shooter is in a car in a vehicle, they have to drive quite a distance between people to find -- it can be desolate stretches. certainly there's stores and gas stations as you approach either one of those cities, but there is also a lot of open texas road in there. so to have a random highway shooter -- arizona has had it, midwest has had them. that does happen. it's kind of foggy because. [ inaudible ]
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but we can have two shooters. it could be two men in a car and they could be shooting people. we have to wait until there's more information from the texas department of public safety, that's the troopers, texas dps, and we'll see what the sheriff and the police say. maybe the type of weapon and the type of vehicle. >> if you're just joining us on msnbc, we're getting reports now of multiple people shot in texas in the odessa midland area. this is not a highly populated area. odessa itself with a population of some 120,000. this is not necessarily a space or an area, a market, if you will, when you look at media that is large. of course, that is the reason why we might discuss that is where we could get more information on the ground. odessa, 120,000 folks according to the last census. small and somewhat remote here.
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jim cavanaugh still with us right now. we're just getting the information about what might not be happening there. what is the considerations so early on, multiple people shot, again, very little information. the police there in midland, texas, i was looking at a tweet they put out earlier. it says, update, we believe there are two shooters in two separate vehicles, one suspect is believed to be at the synergy in midland, and the other is believed to be driving on route 250 in midland. this is, again, according to the midland police department and what they tweeted about 30, 45 minutes, 2:29 local time in midland odessa, texas, time. the two vehicles from the midland police department, they're saying the two vehicles in question are gold, white, small toyota truck, and a u.s.
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ps postal van. stay away from these areas and stay indoors. so you can see as we highlighted on the map, midland and odessa, very close to each other. cavan phone with us at the moment. that is the information we have so far from the midland police department. they believe and i'll read it again here, jim. we believe there are two different shooters in two different vehicles. you were just discussing that they do have to be careful that it could be one shooter, one shooter that's moving around quite quickly but then they identify here in this post, jim, that there are two vehicles and they are very specific about a gold white small truck and a usps postal van. what do you make of it? >> the police have to operate like we do, on the information you have at hand at the moment. so the patrol cars and air operations, certainly we -- sheriffs and the state police are locating these vehicles. one may be located at the park
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so they have information on two vehicles. they have to verify it, but they have to locate the vehicles and block them in, see if they can stop the shooters. if it is two, you know, i mean, like you say, it can happen. it goes more to conspiracy. you know, targeting -- criminal conspiracy to target people. you usually don't get one person to say, let's go kill people. oh, yeah, i thought that was a good idea, too. >> right. >> it's got to be more of a synergistic motive if there are in fact two shooters in two cars. also in west texas you also can have, richard -- everybody carries a gun around west texas. everybody's got a gun in their vehicle and you could have had someone firing in self-defense back at a shooter. >> right. >> and that can be seen by a witness and they report shots fired from a certain vehicle,
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but that may be somebody defending themselves because it wouldn't be unusual for someone to pull out a gun and defend themselves if they're being fired upon especially in texas. so it remains to be seen if that information will hold and the officers have got to locate these vehicles as fast as they can with air, with patrol cars, troopers and midland and odessa, citizens are paying attention, that's the strongest weapon you have. they can start calling in and locating them for you. once you do that, we can box them in, isolate them, stop the shooting, stop the killing. >> that post, jim, as i was looking at the time stamp came right at the top of the hour. so if you're on the east coast, that would be 5 p.m. if you are in the odessa/midland area, it was at 4:00. top of the hour is when they put that in. so we're about 52 minutes at least into this. if you are local law enforcement, jim, and we're just getting news of possibly two
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shooters, of possibly two vehicles, you're 52 minutes in right now, what are you doing if you're local law enforcement? >> yeah, well, you're right. the commanders are out there directing their forces to the locations where those vehicles last were observed and are trying to block highways if they have a direction of travel. for example, often you'll get from a witness, you know, white toyota truck last seen northbound on, you know, highway so and so. well, if you were a patrol deputy or city officer, you're on that road north where the location is, you're going to try to get on that road and block it and see if that truck will pass. you r we catch a lot of people that way. you have a description and direction of travel. you wait. you can get behind them, radio for help, get more people. but if the shooter stops, richard, if they stop at a certain park or business park and start firing their weapons
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then, you know, the officers have to go to that place and see if they can engage. what you get into here is mobile attackers. they shoot and then they move in the vehicle and then they shoot again and move again. and so you're always sort of trailing behind but the description is building so your intelligence of their criminal activity is building for the collective law enforcement in the region, you know? >> right. >> you might be seeing that truck on more than one occasion so you start to verify this is the vehicle you're choosing. the person with the gun can jump out, car jack somebody, kill them, take their car and change vehicles. so nothing stays the same when you have a moving killer like that. but we're going to try to get on him pretty quick. that's the real mission for the commanders and all the uniformed officers and detectives is where are they? where are they? can we get to them and can we
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engage and stop them? >> i want to read something else, this coming out on the facebook page of the odessa police department. i was reading a little bit earlier what was coming in from the midland police. this coming from the odessa police. they posted this saying active shooter. please share. they're eluding to this post right here. a subject, possibly two, is currently driving around odessa shooting at random people. at this time there are multiple gunshot victims. the random -- the suspect just hijacked and u.s. mail carrier truck and was last seen in the area of 38th and walnut. everyone is encouraged to get off the road and use extreme caution. all law enforcement is currently searching for the suspect and more information will be released as soon as it becomes available. i skipped the part that said, again, at this time there are multiple gunshot victims.
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the suspect just hijacking a u.s. mail carrier truck. i wanted to repeat that because it appears that now we have two police departments that are believing there's possibly two suspects here and that they're driving around and the interesting part, because i mentioned the usps truck earlier, is that in that post you can see that they are saying it was hijacked and now being used potentially to carry around this suspect shooter and, again, multiple people shot. what do you make of those two pieces of information we now have from two different police departments? >> yeah, starting to firm up. also you have odessa pd verifying multiple people have been shot so they're verifying activity for sure. the car jacking of the postal vehicle like we just talked about, the shooter can car jack someone. a postal vehicle is not going to be a very fast vehicle. more like a big box.
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not a vehicle with a big motor so, i mean, patrol cars are going to be able to get on top of that thing once they can see it. of course, the other postal carriers are going to have to get out of the way and not be moving around because they don't want to be chasing all of the postal carriers around. they're going to have to find it. it's not going to be a fast car, but they can pull up in front of people's houses, mailboxes, it looks like they belong and they can shoot them. they can change vehicles and still be shooting. why did he change vehicles? maybe because he didn't want to be seen in the one he had or maybe he ran out of gas. they're not einstein. they don't plot their crimes always so great. he car jacked some people. saying two shooters, still not sure if it's two shooters or one
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shooter who changed vehicles. so that's kind of unclear. certainly it's a model, man. there are enough citizens out there and somebody will shoot if he pulls in the driveway. >> again, if you're just joining us here on msnbc, we're just getting information from the midland police department as well as the odessa, texas, police department about potentially two shooters in those two areas. now midland, texas, 200,000 people, odessa, texas, a little over 100,000, 120,000 people. both of these cities somewhat remote. not, as you can tell, high in population. but we are hearing various reports from various media locally about the number of people shot. all we can confirm right now is that which the police departments are telling us and that it is multiple people shot and potentially two shooters,
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potentially two different vehicles. if you're just joining us on msnbc, we are getting information at the moment of this ongoing breaking news story out of odessa. sheer's a shot for you -- excuse me, a picture for you of the location of el paso and where odessa is. as we all know, texas very large state here. jim cavanaugh, you're familiar with many parts of the country. odessa as well as midland, texas, describe what you know of those two cities, of this area of texas. >> you know, it's just a beautiful part of texas. it's central west texas. ranches, cattle ranches, great steakhouses, great people. it's sunny. it's warm. it's a great part of america. it's very central mid america. it's a super place. i mean, all the oil industry has
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been there for years. those are the cities i think president bush 41 started in that, in a little patch there in midland. so many oil companies there. you know, it's just good -- a good spot of america. >> yeah. >> it's a good place. hot summer, warm in the winter. it's unusual. doesn't have a lot of, you know, really, really awful crime there. they have crime like everyplace else. not unusually high crime. still some border smuggling. this is kind of sad somebody running around. a lot of those plots have been stopped, richard, after dayton and el paso. there was a whole slew of people calling into the tip lines and we saw the news last week when

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